2020 Heritage Conference football

[X3pointer]

Sorry his name is Trevon not Travis

[costanza]

It was sincere mcfarlin, not mclain.

[X3pointer]

Sorry the name on the Saltsburg Roster is Trevon Mcfarlin . Anyway is Sincere Mcfarlin and Trevon Mcfarlin the same person

[MikeFLN]

Not sure why anyone from western pa would be so anti union. If you knew your history unions built this country, helped create better working conditions, reasonable work hours and overtime pay all for working families. If it wasn’t for unions my grandfather and father would have been paid in Monopoly script money and bought their groceries at the local company store. And most of my relatives would not have the life they have in retirement without their pensions.

I know your response was on education but generic statements like that only shows ignorance and paints a group with a broad brush and implies that they’re the “enemy” when nearly everyone that I’ve ever met in education works tirelessly with their students best interests in mind.

This is a sports message board so I hate to go down this road but when I read this crap I can't let it slide.

Why would anyone from Western PA be Pro Union is the better question. Yes unions did help create all that you said. They also chased those businesses out of this country and oversees. How many towns still have their mill? Back in the day owners had too much power and the unions did very much needed. What unions of those days did, they should be commended for. But then in the 50's and 60's Unions got to big for their britches and made too many demands, allowing overseas competitors come in at a lower price. Which then made USA Owners say "hey lets build over there and ship the finished product back to us." When you add the insane taxes the government throws on businesses it was a recipe for disaster that we are still trying to fix.

[Manfred]

Not sure why anyone from western pa would be so anti union. If you knew your history unions built this country, helped create better working conditions, reasonable work hours and overtime pay all for working families. If it wasn’t for unions my grandfather and father would have been paid in Monopoly script money and bought their groceries at the local company store. And most of my relatives would not have the life they have in retirement without their pensions.

I know your response was on education but generic statements like that only shows ignorance and paints a group with a broad brush and implies that they’re the “enemy” when nearly everyone that I’ve ever met in education works tirelessly with their students best interests in mind.

This is a sports message board so I hate to go down this road but when I read this crap I can't let it slide.

Why would anyone from Western PA be Pro Union is the better question. Yes unions did help create all that you said. They also chased those businesses out of this country and oversees. How many towns still have their mill? Back in the day owners had too much power and the unions did very much needed. What unions of those days did, they should be commended for. But then in the 50's and 60's Unions got to big for their britches and made too many demands, allowing overseas competitors come in at a lower price. Which then made USA Owners say "hey lets build over there and ship the finished product back to us." When you add the insane taxes the government throws on businesses it was a recipe for disaster that we are still trying to fix.

.

[OutOfTheLoop]

Not sure why anyone from western pa would be so anti union. If you knew your history unions built this country, helped create better working conditions, reasonable work hours and overtime pay all for working families. If it wasn’t for unions my grandfather and father would have been paid in Monopoly script money and bought their groceries at the local company store. And most of my relatives would not have the life they have in retirement without their pensions.

I know your response was on education but generic statements like that only shows ignorance and paints a group with a broad brush and implies that they’re the “enemy” when nearly everyone that I’ve ever met in education works tirelessly with their students best interests in mind.

This is a sports message board so I hate to go down this road but when I read this crap I can't let it slide.

Why would anyone from Western PA be Pro Union is the better question. Yes unions did help create all that you said. They also chased those businesses out of this country and oversees. How many towns still have their mill? Back in the day owners had too much power and the unions did very much needed. What unions of those days did, they should be commended for. But then in the 50's and 60's Unions got to big for their britches and made too many demands, allowing overseas competitors come in at a lower price. Which then made USA Owners say "hey lets build over there and ship the finished product back to us." When you add the insane taxes the government throws on businesses it was a recipe for disaster that we are still trying to fix.

This a gross oversimplification of the outsourcing of US manufacturing. Free trade ( as opposed to fair trade) has been devastating. Look at income disparities between the 1960s and now between the middle class and very wealthy. Wouldn't making America Great Again include being able to afford a comfortable middle-class lifestyle on one income.
How many normal families can do that anymore? Why isn't it a goal anymore?

Also look at corporate profit margins and CEO pay trends as well. It is not the middle class union workers demanding a livable wage and benefits that decimated manufacturing. It's crazy how the rich and powerful decision-makers blame those with little relative influence for our economic problems.

[konjo78]

Unions arent perfect. Yes they helped give workers basic rights that were being trampled on in the past, like working conditions and pay for manufacturing workers in the early 1900s.

But they also have downsides now too. A lot of unions go the seniority method, meaning the longer you are in the union the more comfortable your position is. It also means if there are cuts it is the new worker that goes first, regardless of performance. The oldest in the union feels way to safe in their job while the newest are most vulnerable. Its not about quality of work.


But i dont think unions are 100% to blame for things going overseas, thats our governments. With free trade we actually gave manufacturing companies major incentives to move their factories over seas to countries that are so poor they pay the workers there next to nothing. And if you told a CEO you can put your manufacturing in a country where base pay can be $7.50/hr (usa min wage but states are dif) or one that is $0.50/hr what would you pick?

[MikeFLN]

This a gross oversimplification of the outsourcing of US manufacturing. Free trade ( as opposed to fair trade) has been devastating. Look at income disparities between the 1960s and now between the middle class and very wealthy. Wouldn't making America Great Again include being able to afford a comfortable middle-class lifestyle on one income.
How many normal families can do that anymore? Why isn't it a goal anymore?

Also look at corporate profit margins and CEO pay trends as well. It is not the middle class union workers demanding a livable wage and benefits that decimated manufacturing. It's crazy how the rich and powerful decision-makers blame those with little relative influence for our economic problems.

SOB I am really trying not to go down this road on a sports massage board.

1) Where is the oversimplification at? Unions were needed. Carnegie, Frick, and their ilk were horrible. But then in the 50's & 60's Unions got too powerful (13 weeks vacation). Don't get me started with pension, as all they will ever do is bankrupt any entity that agrees to pay it.

All those perks led to items being marked up. So when foreign goods came in cheaper, people flocked to those items. I.E. It is 1975. Why buy RCA when Panasonic is 30% cheaper? That lead US companies to produce in foreign countries. You want these jobs back, make it a point to buy Made in the USA and convince about 200 of the 350 million people in this country to do so also. Good luck with that.

I try to buy as much "made in the USA" goods as I can, even if it cost more (within reason). I am thankful I found jean companies (www.allamericanclothing.com and https://www.round-house.com/) that does not charge $200 a pair for the privileged of supporting the American workforce. I am willing to pay a premium but don't make an **** of me with $200 for jeans. Before I buy anything of substance I always check https://americansworking.com/ to see if I can buy a comparable "Made in the USA" product. I encourage you to do the same and spread that message. But the likes of us convincing 200 million people to do so are slim to none. People by and large, do not care enough as they cannot understand the benefit enough.


2) Income disparities- You want income disparities to even out? Again convince about 200 of the 350 million people in this country to start only buying products who CEO's don't make that kind of money. The CEO of GM total compensation is around $21 million a year. That is a lot of new cars and parts to sell just to pay her, let a lone everyone else. Try and convince people not to support companies they have been loyal to since they were kids because of income disparity. Not likely. Also try and tell them to buy from local mom and pop and not Walmart or Amazon. They may stone you at that comment.

As you can see I do not blame businesses as much as I blame the consumer. We the people have the power, we just have no desire or determination to demand change, if it is not easy we are not interested. All it would require is "NOT TO BUY THEIR CRAP". Now to my final point. I want to address this gem.

"being able to afford a comfortable middle-class lifestyle on one income. How many normal families can do that anymore? Why isn't it a goal anymore?"

People can afford it but they don't because they try to live like the rich. Middle class used to mean:
Cars- 1 per family. Maybe a contractor had a family vehicle and a work truck.
House- around 1500 sq 3 bedroom 1 bath (unless you count a Pittsburgh potty)
Food- At most middleclass people ate out once a week for a small %. For the higher % of middle class folks once a month unless there was a celebration then twice that month. Maybe people went to get ice cream more regular than once or twice a month but actual meals they ate at home.
Parties- Were held at the family home with simple games like hot potato, musical chairs, etc. and had homemade food and homemade cake.
Entertainment- local HS game, (if they went to a college or pro game they did not eat there). Bowling, the occasional movie, hunting and fishing with simple gear, etc etc etc but generally kept cheap.
Vacation- once a year most likely spent at a motel 6 type of establishment

If you or anyone wants to live like that they can easily do that on a single income. But that is not what we call middle class anymore. What we call middle class is what people in the 50's and 60's called rich.

Cars- 2 and when the kids turn 16 they get a car too. It amazes me when I see a 4 person family and they have 5 cars and a boat or RV.
House- Now a middleclass family lives in 2200 sq ft home with 4 bedrooms 2.5 bath. They may even have a camp or 2nd home somewhere.
Food- Easily eat out once a week or more. Many don't even have a clue on how to make a meal at home.
Parties- Can't have it at home anymore. Nope. Got to have them at some bounce house or entertainment center. Not allowed to bring your own food there, have to buy theirs. you can bring your own cake, but you still decide to pay someone else to make it.
Entertainment- Cable/Steaming services, Cell phone, eating at college and pro games ($10 beers), Hunting/fishing but we have to have camera and sonar and other high priced gear, etc. etc. etc. People pay big bucks for their entertainment.
Vacation- 1 main family vacation staying in a resort or renting a house or condo. They may get a hotel on the drive down but it will be some place respectable, not a Motel 6 type place. Then mom and dad need a few romantic weekends. Of course mom needs a girls weekend and Dad needs his.

Living that life take 2 incomes, actually it takes more than 2 that is why most people are in debt out their backside.


Basically what I am saying is we have free will. People choose to live in a way that makes them poorer than they should be. It is their own fault. They is why the middleclass can't live on 1 income anymore. Their spending habits won't allow for it.

[konjo78]

I think some people over extend but there has also been high inflation with a stagnation of middle class wages.

Middle class wages from the 60s were around 40-60k a year, today they are still in that 40-60k mark but prices have gone up in just about every area.

The other area thats being infected is an oversaturated of "qualified" workers in areas that provide those type of wages. People are working into late 60s and 70s now. Entry level jobs are now requiring 2-5 years of experience to be considered, which leaves many younger people in the workforce in this bubble coming out of college.

For parents that want their kids to work, they wont be hired more times than not if they dont have their own transportation to work.

Health insurance costs continue to rise and rise to where if you want a family covered its $500-$1000 out of every paycheck per month.

I cant speak to your housing market in western PA, but in the midwest and west coast its just going up and up. Homes that were 100k-150k 5 years ago are 250k-300k now, with no sign of slowing down. My parents bought their home in Wash state for around 230k, the houses being built in the same neighborhood with less bedroom and features are starting at 600k.



Like most things there is not a black and white answer here, people overspend i agree there but its not the same economy where 1 person can hold a normal middle class job and pay for a family of 4.

[MikeFLN]

I think some people over extend but there has also been high inflation with a stagnation of middle class wages.

Middle class wages from the 60s were around 40-60k a year, today they are still in that 40-60k mark but prices have gone up in just about every area.

No, just no. Middle class in the 60's was like $8-15K

The other area thats being infected is an oversaturated of "qualified" workers in areas that provide those type of wages. People are working into late 60s and 70s now. Entry level jobs are now requiring 2-5 years of experience to be considered, which leaves many younger people in the workforce in this bubble coming out of college.

Yes I see this. I graduated from St Vincent College in 2002. My senior year tuition was $24k sticker price. I use the accounting/finance major as my anecdotical evidence, since I was in therefore I know most about. Most of my classmates came out starting their career s making $40-55K depending on the role that landed. Today the sticker price for tuition is $48K and most of those kids come out making $50-60K.

For parents that want their kids to work, they wont be hired more times than not if they dont have their own transportation to work.

There is walking, taking a bike, take public transportation. Where there is a will there is a way. When I was 16 I walked or biked a little over a mile to get to work.

Health insurance costs continue to rise and rise to where if you want a family covered its $500-$1000 out of every paycheck per month.

Agree health cost are outrageous but this is a whole different topic for a different day on a different board.

I cant speak to your housing market in western PA, but in the midwest and west coast its just going up and up. Homes that were 100k-150k 5 years ago are 250k-300k now, with no sign of slowing down. My parents bought their home in Wash state for around 230k, the houses being built in the same neighborhood with less bedroom and features are starting at 600k.



Like most things there is not a black and white answer here, people overspend i agree there but its not the same economy where 1 person can hold a normal middle class job and pay for a family of 4.

You are right it is not black and white and it is not the same economy. My point is that a person can still raise a family on a single income if that make that a priority. Most people don't so that is why people are in the rat race.