It's Curt Flood's Fault

The name says it all!
abpk2903
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by abpk2903 »

I am not a fan of multiple transfers without penalty in college. Remember the primary goal of collegiate athletics is education. 99% of those athletes will never earn a dollar playing their respective sports. I am not sure how going to multiple major universities in a 4 or 5 year stretch really helps with the education of a student athlete. I think they should implement a one transfer rule when transferring to a similar program. You can go power 5 to power 5 but only once. You can go non-power 5 to non-power 5 only once.

I'll give you an example, Curtis Jones Jr. finished his career this year with Penn State but he actually played multiple seasons for Indiana and a season for Oklahoma State before coming to Penn State. During 4 years of eligibility, he played for 3 comparable teams in power conferences.

I think it should be easy for players to go up or down the ladder like a kid goes to a Jr College, then to a non power 5 school, then to a power 5 school without much penalty. Or if a player commits to a power 5 and is in over their head a little so they work their way down the ladder for a better experience. I don't think there should be any limit on transferring if you are re-positioning yourself on the rung.

Justin Fields being able to just hop from one major program to another just isn't a good look optically, in my opinion. Let's not forget Justin Fields committed (loosely used term) to Penn State, flipped to UGA, redshirted at UGA, transfers to Ohio State without penalty, and will likely leave for the NFL after 2 years there. Doesn't seem to have a lot of loyalty to any particular institution other than himself.

At some point, I start to question the character of athletes like Fields and Jones Jr. How can't they commit to a single program and work to get better with that program? Would I, as a professional GM, risk drafting a player that clearly shows little loyalty to those that have given him an opportunity to this point. Am I just going to draft this player for him to walk to a new team at the first sign of free agency?
Manfred
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by Manfred »

For some, this methodology begins in HS.
It ain't over until it's over.
Crimson's Ghost
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by Crimson's Ghost »

Transfers have always been part of college athletics, it's higher profile transfers that have certainly exploited the loopholes and rubbed people the wrong way like the Justin Fields of the world.

Part of the problem is the recruiting process itself. Coaches bend over backwards to recruit kids, they are treated like kings on their recruiting visits, and then June rolls around and you have to report to school and it can be a lot different. Coaches tell you what the kids want to hear, but when it comes time to physically move into a school and they have to report to camp, those guys recruiting you become your coach and not your recruiter and the relationship obviously changes once that happens. That recruiting visit where you are put up in a nice hotel and going to nice restaurants isn't what you will experience once you get there.

I think sometimes prospective recruits don't always answer one simple question when they make a decision: Can I live here and go to school here if it weren't for football? Is this really where I would go to school if it weren't for athletics?

And from my job talking to hundreds of recruits every year, I would say a lot of kids don't answer that question correctly before deciding. Coaches change, coaches plans for you can change, teammates can come and go. But the physical school where you are selecting is going to remain consistent. And I think high school recruits sometimes forget to answer themselves that very question. Do you want to live in Pittsburgh, or Columbus, or State College for five years or not? And often times I think that very principle in the decision making process is overlooked, at least from my experience in covering college recruiting.
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by Crimson's Ghost »

I interview a lot of high school football recruits for work and one question I always ask is: What are you looking for in a school?

The answers are actually very interesting and they can range in a lot of different directions. Here are some examples I've encountered through the years.

- A good relationship with the coaches
- if the coaches really seem interested in me
- If they can put me in the NFL and do they have a good track record of doing that.
- If I can play early
- if they have my major
- if they run the kind of scheme I would fit into
- If it feels like home
- The facilities, campus
- and some actually do answer if I can live there without football

Those are the most common ones I get, sometimes it's a combination of those things, and sometimes it's just one of those things. As you can see some are more well thought out than others.
konjo78
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by konjo78 »

Thats the problem for most... Sports have become so idolize teens growing up base their decisions on how long/far they can keep their athletic careers alive and not the important parts.


And this is also true of athletic programs themselves... If you play any NCAA sport expect your in season periods to be 70% dedicated to practice and about 10% on school. Its ridiculous seeing programs putting up 6-8 hour of practices/working out daily on top of being a full time college student.
abpk2903
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by abpk2903 »

First off, I don't think many college athletes average 6-8 hours a day of practice/workouts very often. I was pretty close friends with a lot of division 1 athletes at some power 5 schools and I do not know of any that put that kind of workload in. Maybe during the heart of the season, they would get to that amount of workload but not week-in-week-out for 16 weeks each semester. From what I have found, many athletes put comparative time into their sports as a student body council member or direct of a large student organization (THON comes to mind). The difference is, athletes are compensated for their time through scholarships and are provided tutors, special guidance counselors, and prioritized class scheduling. Most student athletes have a 12 credit work load during their season which is really not that heavy of a workload.

Both my wife and I worked 30-40 hours per week on top of being full-time students at Penn State without the aforementioned benefits that a student athlete receives. That was all in an effort to not be saddled with student debt at graduation which we still had some. Athletes leave school after 4 or 5 years with little to no debt if they are even remotely responsible with the resources provided to them. Nobody forces a college athlete to be a college athlete so the fact that thousands of kids each year are disappointed because they didn't get a D1 offer leads me to believe it is better to be a D1 scholarship athlete than not be one.

I get a little tired of the "poor me" crowd of student athletes. If you don't want to be one, don't do it.

Crimson, great perspective of the "can I really live here outside of sports" mentality that these athletes should take.

The problem is most of these athletes being recruited at the power 5 level have been catered to in sports and school their entire life. Parents, coaches, and administrators are willing to do almost anything to get 5-star Johnny on their roster. I coach a 13-15 year old rec level baseball team and the politicking and butt kissing to get players on your roster at a level that is miles away from collegiate athletics is astounding. I think most all members of this site know of the same type of thing that is going on at a early high school level to get the 5-star Johnny to their high school or AAU/Travel Team. College is the first time that 5-star Johnny is actually held accountable for his actions though. College is real school, not like most high schools that pretty much any breathing person can get through the course load. Even the brightest will have a few classes that make them take a book a back to the dorm and spend a few hours focusing on retaining the information. They also get thrown into a practice field with (in football) 85 other 5-star Johnny's and the only way to differentiate themselves and get playing time is outworking and outperforming someone else that was catered to for over a decade. 5-star Johnny's tend to not like this.

This is where I don't know if transfer portals really helps prepare these athletes for life. I don't like comparing them to coaches (because coaches can leave or be fired) because they are two entirely different roles. A coach has a career, is being paid, and held much more accountable than student athlete. I think college athletics is a good chance for an early life lesson. People get stuck at jobs I didn't like for an extended period. People get stuck in relationships they may not like but have children and/or financial restraints with ending. So on and so forth.

Whether it be in college or after college, there will be a point when 5-star Johnny has to sleep in the bed he has made. Why not accelerate the process a little bit.
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by Crimson's Ghost »

College athletes do have long days, but their time actually practicing and being with the coaches on the field or court is limited. They can work on their own, watch film, work with the S&C staff etc. But you do only have some many practice hours a week.
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by knowitall »

Manfred wrote: April 7th, 2020, 9:37 am For some, this methodology begins in HS.
Or even before. I knew parents that had their kids in three or four different little leagues and on two or three different travel teams.
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by konjo78 »

I meant those days as in season. I roomed with Football and basketball players during my time in college and had friends in track.

Days would be like this...


Practice 4/5am - 8am. Usually conditioning or weight roomw work.

Classes 9am - 2/3pm

Then main practice from 330/4pm - 7/8pm. Then after that they were highly suggestred to spend extra time in study hall areas where they could get help with their school work.


People definitly work full time jobs and go to school, its comparable for sure. But these players have been programmed to really just focus on their sports, to be the best. You probably have a better chance of catching corana virus then be a college athlete that will go pro.
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Re: It's Curt Flood's Fault

Post by Bedrock »

Yikes Konjo!!! What college was this?

I played in the PSAC and here was in season schedule:
practice 3:15pm-5:30ish
study hall 7-9pm if you didn't have a 3.0 GPA
You met with your position coach two or three days a week sometime during the day around your class schedule.
If we played away we left at noon on Fridays.
Sunday--med check between 10am and 12pm if you played
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