District 5 Track & Field

[once a runner]

I agree that the state champion in track isn't always the best team. If you are around long enough, you've seen your share of championships won by 1 or 2 quality people. It would be interesting to see a dual meet championship, but I don't think it's feasible in track. It would require too many meets. Personally, I would like to see them do away with the team titles on the state level. I think we miss out on a lot of great performances because the top kids are often doing 3 and 4 events to garner as many events for their team. I would love to see what kind of performances some kids achieve if they could focus on just their best events. All season long the best kids are the ones running multiple events and it can often take its toll by the time they get to the state meet.

Zonebreaker, I respectfully disagree with your ranking of how big of a deal the sports are. Certainly football and basketball get the most attention. That's true of all states and all levels of competition. However, I can assure you that winning a state title is a big deal in any sport, no matter how small some people may perceive it to be.

[zonebreaker]

those were not my ranking of sports.

instead, it was my opinion on the significance of team state championships. and that is just how i view it. certainly not universal. i think a team state championship in track is a big deal.

[wickedcrossover]

Here's the problem with T&F team state champions. A team could have 1 or 2 talented peformers who could dominate in 3 or 4 events; this in a lot of cases could win the TEAM state championship. However, during the rest of the season they maybe didn't win a single dual meet or even an invitational when full teams were actually competing. So how can 1 or 2 performers be considered a team? Also, there are some districts that are stronger than others or don't have as many individual state qualifiers (district 5 with Donaldson, Snyder, Podlensky a couple of years ago). So it is very possible that some state qualifiers who scored at states wouldn't even score if full teams were present.

Cross country, actually is more effective at determing a true state champion. Although, individuals qualify to compete, there are team qualifications also. Actually the number of individual qualifiers is based off the number of district teams permitted to qualify: ie. 2 individuals per each team alloted per district. So I would think that if schools were actually able to bring their full TEAM and compete as a team, that this would be a better gauge of a true team champion. This method, although more reliable as to determining a true team state champion, is not without it's flaws. There are some teams in some districts which would dominate a lot of other teams throughout the state, but since they competed in a strong district they weren't even afforded the opportunity to compete in states.

Still though, I believe that the state T&F event at Shippensburg is a spectacular event. The athletes provide some of the best individual competion a sports fan could wish to see in two days. To any of you who have not witnessed this event, I highly recommend it. It is truly amazing to see how much these high school kids put out.

[usatf oldguy]

There are years in track when one or two individuals win the title for their respective teams.I think Altoona will have many people score this year and did have many contribute in there other titles.Obviously the gehret boy will probably contribute the most but they have quite a few others who will grab up vital team points.It takes a very special team and alot of luck to win a state track title.I coached for a decade and a half and only recall having 1 team that would have had a chance.Now everybody that made it to states would have had to have contributed and alot of luck was needed.That team ended up 8th with several individuals scoring but it just wasn't enough.Heck I remember years where 23 points win a title.The state track meet can be wild!I too would love to see a dual format, that truly would be interesting,as far as I'm concerned a good dual team is probably alot harder to get than a good invite team.Unfortunately the good dual meet teams garner alot less attention by the press unless they are a great invite team too.I think the value of a state track title is equal to any highschool state title.They are rare and should be relished!Let's not forget what one person can do in some other sports too(terrel pryor,kobe bryant).It is sad that the papers don't give the same respect to track as alot of the bigger sports ie(football,basketball,wrestling).The talent level of track over the past 5 years has probably rivaled any other highschool sport in the area.Heck how many people would know altoona was going for there 3rd title in a row,or in cross country central cambria is going for 3.If that was football it would printed every where! Then you have Altoonas run at penn relays ,competing on a national level and you hardly see anything.When BG won a state girls bball title there was a special section in the paper! I think if the boys from altoona do it again they should recieve the same!

[zonebreaker]

Here's the problem with T&F team state champions. A team could have 1 or 2 talented peformers who could dominate in 3 or 4 events; this in a lot of cases could win the TEAM state championship. However, during the rest of the season they maybe didn't win a single dual meet or even an invitational when full teams were actually competing. So how can 1 or 2 performers be considered a team? Also, there are some districts that are stronger than others or don't have as many individual state qualifiers (district 5 with Donaldson, Snyder, Podlensky a couple of years ago). So it is very possible that some state qualifiers who scored at states wouldn't even score if full teams were present.

Personally, I prefer bigger tournaments over dual meets. Dual meets allow average to below-average performers win key points. Statistics regarding points won really are meaningless to compare athletes in that they are completely dependent upon strength of competition. Thus, I prefer looking at team results at bigger competitions, districts, and states. They are different things. I can see how some would prefer the layout of the dual meets.

And it is VERY rare for a team to win a state championship b/c of one or two individuals WHEN they lost all their dual meets. Even if a team wins based on a couple of athletes, they USUALLY have a solid program and a good dual meet record.

[wickedcrossover]

Mr. Zonebreaker, alow me to be polite. You are wrong. With the exception of Altoona over the last few years, most state championships and/or high placing teams are simply because of a very few individuals per team.

To prove my point, I went back to 2008. I'm not about to put too much time into this and go back any further, but anyone else is welcomed. AA girls was won by Swenson Avts out of district 12; they won with 55 points. They had 1 girl win the 100 & the 200 and another girl win the 300 & 100 hurdles. They also had one girl place 5th in the 100. The three of them plus one other girl won the 4X100. They didn't have any other representatives in any other events, yet they won states!?

AA boys was won by Wilmington Area with 45 points. They took seconds in the Javelin & discus, won the Shot put and the long jump. The only track event that they scored points in was a 4th place finish in the 4X100. They had no representation in other events.

AAA girls was won by Methacton out of district 1. They were represented by one girl. Ryann Krais. After winning the preliminaries by almost a second in the 100 hurdles, she tripped over a hurdle after being way ahead of the field and was DQ'd. I say this only to point out that she could have scored 10 more points and won the state championship by the largest amount of point differential than any of the other championships that year. Instead she only went on to win the state championship by 2 points by taking first in th HJ, LJ, and the 300 hurdles!!! Yea that's definately a team win.

Now Mr. Zonebreaker, where a team can lose the dual meets is if they only have those one, two, or three special athletes and no one else who is talented or driven. There are 18 events with the top three scoring points.....it's hard for just a few athletes to win the duals........it truly takes a team.

With that said, I don't know if I agree with dual meets being used to settle states. I think that there should be districts set up to have the top three from each team go at it (similisar to invitatationals). The top two or three teams from each district could then go on to compete in a team meet seperate from an individual meet. That way the top teams with their entire teams from each district will get to go against each other. Notice each team will be FULLY represented in ALL events.

[zonebreaker]

that is all good

but i said that it is very rare for a team to win states "WHEN they lost all their dual meets" due to a couple of athletes. yes, there have been many instances where teams win states b/c of point totals from a few athletes. but in most of these situations, the team is also strong and they have not gone winless in dual meet season.

[wickedcrossover]

Alright, I'l back off from my statement of teams going winless in dual meets. However, at least you can see that it is very possible. My main point is that the state champion for teams is not the best team in the state in most cases. Once again, Altoona being the most recent exception.

Another example would be this year in the LHAC. I don't know the final standings but McCort would be lucky if they won 4 dual meets this year. On the other hand, I would suspect that CC, Richland and Bedford would have a successful year in the duals. Also, I beleive that Bedford should win the LHAC (today) and that McCort would not be in the top five. Also in districts McCort won't score well. However, in states there is probably a 95% chance that McCort outscores all those other teams. So, you tell me, who is the better TEAM! Obviously McCort..........?

[sportsfan5]

district 5 has strong jumpers just like they always do.