How Elite is Elite?
Re: How Elite is Elite?
Sarge is case in point with what is wrong with youth sports today. The perfect example of a parent that thinks they can buy a college scholarship or a MLB draft pick for their kid.
I don't question travel teams, elite teams, ect after about 14 but he honestly thinks taking an 8 year old to South Carolina for a baseball game actually improves their chances of being offered a college scholarship and/or drafted. It boggles my mind. I can fire back with local athletes that I know of that simply played in their local little league, played on their local pony league, and maybe did a few camps during the summer to fine tune their skills that are now either at or near the big league level.
Someone must have really hurt his feelings.
I don't question travel teams, elite teams, ect after about 14 but he honestly thinks taking an 8 year old to South Carolina for a baseball game actually improves their chances of being offered a college scholarship and/or drafted. It boggles my mind. I can fire back with local athletes that I know of that simply played in their local little league, played on their local pony league, and maybe did a few camps during the summer to fine tune their skills that are now either at or near the big league level.
Someone must have really hurt his feelings.
Re: How Elite is Elite?
I didn't quite interpret Sarge's comments that way at all, but I agree with what you are saying. So, Sarge are you defending travel ball? Or is this your kid - and you just began to post in order to braq him up and pump up your ego? Or do you run/coach a travel organization and don't want any negative press/honest discussion???
).
You see, I don't care if you want to have your kids play travel ball, or if you are dead set against it. The bottom line is that there are many avenues to help kids improve, compete, or advance. While none are guaranteed, all can have some type of benefit. Parents need to weigh the pros and cons, and do what they think is in their child's best interest. From my perspective, the best investment is their own time. DNA, pitch counts, and internet research are appropriate items to discuss because each one has some type of impact. Without the right information, you can't make good decisions. I think that point gets lost in this discussion because people don't always realize what scouts are looking at. Its not what a player has already done, its what can he do in the future. Some kids can just play. Period. So if a kid can hit a ball a country mile or "throw that speedball by ya" he is gonna be just fine. And then, maybe he will be "elite".
In case you missed it, the original topic was an interesting read - that's why I posted it. Incidentally, this just happens to be a hot topic at the moment, and everyone has an opinion. But as I previously stated, by the tone of your responses, you've apparently found some of that commentary offensive. Based upon the subsequent posts, the consensus is that most people would agree that travel sports present a higher level of competition but there are also social ramifications. Inevitably, the travel circuit has turned into a business, pure and simple. If you've read any of the other discussion on this and other similar topics you'll also note that it is difficult to discuss travel sports without discussing the associated costs of participation - and that's why those types of comments can't be ignored. That money has to go into someone's pocket, and that is why several notable coaches, including PSU football coach James Franklin have warned parents about the pitfalls of travel sports (research thatsay_oww wrote:Congrats to the kid for being drafted in the 39th round by the Mets. Great for him! Wish him all of the luck in the world!
But this post definitely sounds like someone is defensive about paying for their kid to play travel ball.The original post was based upon an article on ESPN and featured experts who researched the subject. Basically, it said parents are creating prima donnas who aren't going to achieve their parents' dreams. The question then becomes if every kid playing little league nowadays also plays on a travel team does that mean that every kid will play professional MLB baseball?
BTW there are about hundreds of thousands of "elite" kids who didn't even get a scholarship, let alone get drafted
And once again congrats to Luensmann!
).You see, I don't care if you want to have your kids play travel ball, or if you are dead set against it. The bottom line is that there are many avenues to help kids improve, compete, or advance. While none are guaranteed, all can have some type of benefit. Parents need to weigh the pros and cons, and do what they think is in their child's best interest. From my perspective, the best investment is their own time. DNA, pitch counts, and internet research are appropriate items to discuss because each one has some type of impact. Without the right information, you can't make good decisions. I think that point gets lost in this discussion because people don't always realize what scouts are looking at. Its not what a player has already done, its what can he do in the future. Some kids can just play. Period. So if a kid can hit a ball a country mile or "throw that speedball by ya" he is gonna be just fine. And then, maybe he will be "elite".
Last edited by say_oww on June 12th, 2015, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How Elite is Elite?
Ok, I'm confused.... who's feelings were hurt and who was cut??? 
Re: How Elite is Elite?
I wish I could do a study to find out what percentage of the parents that have their children on these "travel" and "elite" teams have a college saving fund set up for these very same children.
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CoachSmith
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Re: How Elite is Elite?
Well I'll start your research off by stating that my kid plays travel basketball and I've had a college savings plan from day 1 and continue to contribute to it. The traveling provides good experiences the kids don't otherwise receive "in town", teaches them the intricacies of the game, builds social skills and lets kids have fun while seeing/competing against some great athletes that they might just see on espn one day. My kid isn't elite and will prob never play an organized game again after high school but it is something they enjoy so why not let them do it? Not everyone out there is "elite" crazed.
Re: How Elite is Elite?
Answers to some of the questions above:
1. I completely support travel baseball.
2. No, the player drafted by the Mets is not my kid.
3. I have do have a son playing travel baseball and have both my son and daughter's college paid thank you. And NO, it is not $2,000 every three months. Not even $2,000 for the entire summer league program. And, do you think tournaments and uniforms are free? Some tournaments have an entry fee of over $1,000. The costs have to be distributed evenly amongst players.
4. Yes, I have coached travel baseball for close to 10 years now. I am a little miffed at the comments made in this thread because you are using one reference point (FCE) as blanket assumptions and statements to a travel program that is bigger than one organization in Central PA. Also, if you are going to made broad assumptions about travel ball, please at least go and experience it, not take what you hear from a disgruntled parent or a disgruntled little league coach that is losing players because parents are taking their kids to a travel ball team that is going to work considerably on their development as a baseball player and give them the opportunity to play against some of the best players and teams.
I coached travel ball for 5 years in MD (10U-14U). It was a christian-based organization, we had a cross built into our logo and said the lord's prayer before every game. I say this because I feel as though you see every travel baseball program as a big money making machine. Coaches were not paid and volunteered countless hours to the cause. Did it cost more money than playing recreational ball, absolutely. And no, we did not have boys that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. We had parents that could barely afford to pay, so we fundraised in order to cut/defray the costs. Not once did our coaching staff give these boys a false impression about going to D1 or MLB. Our mission was player development and to make them better baseball players and young men in hopes that we were handing over fundamentally sound and varisty-ready players to the high school coach. Our coaches went to clinics held by college staffs to make sure we did everything the RIGHT way. We met with local high school coaches of the boys so that we could get their input. So, I DO get a little defensive when people on this thread ASSUME that every travel program is built the same way.
As for the pitch counts, in no way did we ever overthrow a kid. We always rostered enough players to ensure that we did not hurt a kids arm. What disgusts me to this day is when I see a little league coach throw a kid for three innings in a game and then turn around and put him behind the plate to catch for the remainder of the game. If he is catching, he is throwing the same(or even more) baseballs than the pitcher during a game. My point here is that the arm injury thing is not unique to the travel ball world, there are a lot of knucklehead (not all are) little league coaches that wear a kids arm out because of lack of knowledge or the desire to win at all costs.
At the 15U level, the way the programs are run do begin to change. Conversations about college do start happening, but I have never heard one of my son's coaches pump him up about playing MLB. The HAVE been talking to them about getting good grades in school (GPAs and what is needed), good nutrition as an athlete, and also about strength and conditioning. I am not being told by any of the FCE coaches that my kid has D1 skills and that it will only cost me an additional $2,000 to get him there. There are other organizations out there that do this, not FCE. I get the emails about tryouts from the ERA, he does his tryout, and then we are notified on whether he is selected to play or not. FCE has had showcase events that bring in college recruiters (16U-18U) so that these boys have every opportunity.
This is my last post on this thread. Believe all of what you see and half of what you hear on travel baseball. I agree, not all kids are elite. I really wish that word was not even associated with the program, maybe would change people's perspective on things.I take pride in the fact that a lot of the boys I have coached are able to compete as freshmen on their varsity teams, it shows that we did in fact get them ready to play. If they go on to play at a higher level, great. If not, the places, friendships, and experiences they will carry on with them will last a lifetme.
Travel baseball has elevated my son's (and a lot of other boys) game and development as a baseball player. He has had the opportunity to play at dozens of college stadiums, Iron Birds stadium at the Ripken complex in Aberdeen and all up and down the east coast. I can look back on this experience and say that i have given my son a great baseball experience that I never had growing up. I don't regret one minute of it and I can't sit back and read the posts on this thread of people that don't have the credibility to talk intelligently about it.
1. I completely support travel baseball.
2. No, the player drafted by the Mets is not my kid.
3. I have do have a son playing travel baseball and have both my son and daughter's college paid thank you. And NO, it is not $2,000 every three months. Not even $2,000 for the entire summer league program. And, do you think tournaments and uniforms are free? Some tournaments have an entry fee of over $1,000. The costs have to be distributed evenly amongst players.
4. Yes, I have coached travel baseball for close to 10 years now. I am a little miffed at the comments made in this thread because you are using one reference point (FCE) as blanket assumptions and statements to a travel program that is bigger than one organization in Central PA. Also, if you are going to made broad assumptions about travel ball, please at least go and experience it, not take what you hear from a disgruntled parent or a disgruntled little league coach that is losing players because parents are taking their kids to a travel ball team that is going to work considerably on their development as a baseball player and give them the opportunity to play against some of the best players and teams.
I coached travel ball for 5 years in MD (10U-14U). It was a christian-based organization, we had a cross built into our logo and said the lord's prayer before every game. I say this because I feel as though you see every travel baseball program as a big money making machine. Coaches were not paid and volunteered countless hours to the cause. Did it cost more money than playing recreational ball, absolutely. And no, we did not have boys that were born with a silver spoon in their mouth. We had parents that could barely afford to pay, so we fundraised in order to cut/defray the costs. Not once did our coaching staff give these boys a false impression about going to D1 or MLB. Our mission was player development and to make them better baseball players and young men in hopes that we were handing over fundamentally sound and varisty-ready players to the high school coach. Our coaches went to clinics held by college staffs to make sure we did everything the RIGHT way. We met with local high school coaches of the boys so that we could get their input. So, I DO get a little defensive when people on this thread ASSUME that every travel program is built the same way.
As for the pitch counts, in no way did we ever overthrow a kid. We always rostered enough players to ensure that we did not hurt a kids arm. What disgusts me to this day is when I see a little league coach throw a kid for three innings in a game and then turn around and put him behind the plate to catch for the remainder of the game. If he is catching, he is throwing the same(or even more) baseballs than the pitcher during a game. My point here is that the arm injury thing is not unique to the travel ball world, there are a lot of knucklehead (not all are) little league coaches that wear a kids arm out because of lack of knowledge or the desire to win at all costs.
At the 15U level, the way the programs are run do begin to change. Conversations about college do start happening, but I have never heard one of my son's coaches pump him up about playing MLB. The HAVE been talking to them about getting good grades in school (GPAs and what is needed), good nutrition as an athlete, and also about strength and conditioning. I am not being told by any of the FCE coaches that my kid has D1 skills and that it will only cost me an additional $2,000 to get him there. There are other organizations out there that do this, not FCE. I get the emails about tryouts from the ERA, he does his tryout, and then we are notified on whether he is selected to play or not. FCE has had showcase events that bring in college recruiters (16U-18U) so that these boys have every opportunity.
This is my last post on this thread. Believe all of what you see and half of what you hear on travel baseball. I agree, not all kids are elite. I really wish that word was not even associated with the program, maybe would change people's perspective on things.I take pride in the fact that a lot of the boys I have coached are able to compete as freshmen on their varsity teams, it shows that we did in fact get them ready to play. If they go on to play at a higher level, great. If not, the places, friendships, and experiences they will carry on with them will last a lifetme.
Travel baseball has elevated my son's (and a lot of other boys) game and development as a baseball player. He has had the opportunity to play at dozens of college stadiums, Iron Birds stadium at the Ripken complex in Aberdeen and all up and down the east coast. I can look back on this experience and say that i have given my son a great baseball experience that I never had growing up. I don't regret one minute of it and I can't sit back and read the posts on this thread of people that don't have the credibility to talk intelligently about it.
Re: How Elite is Elite?
Congrats on how you ran your organization! One shouldn't take posts of anonymous guys personally, nor should one assume that others don't have the same or more experience. The original article was posted because it described in detail through an outsider's commentary how the travel circuit has evolved and what it has done to the game at the lower levels. Make no mistake that this isn't just a business, its an industry. Millions of dollars in facilities wouldn't have been built if there wasn't a demand for the services that these kinds of coaches provide. Cottage industries have sprung up in the form of equipment, clothing and memorabilia vendors. But I think at the end of the day everyone should develop their opinion and determine what is appropriate for their own child. Yes, travel ball can be a great experience. What is also a great experience? How about a trip to Disneyworld every year.
Is travel ball essential to move on to the next level ? No. Does it help - yes, to a degree and under the right conditions. Primarily it is for exposure, but even that is dependent on physical makeup. Is it really necessary to get a $200 photo collage poster of the day at Ripken? Or a $90 backpack and $50 batting helmet??? Before I let everyone else answer that question, I'll just say that question sums it all up for me. The reason so many people are critical and have strong feelings about this topic is because most kids who participate aren't silver spoon kids. We are talking about working class kids whose parents have been convinced that they have to participate because their kid will be left behind. You mentioned 15U, well I can tell you that everyone in 18u thinks they are going D1 until the only offer they get is to play at the local community college or DIII school. I've always felt practice time was more important than the game. Games gauge what you can do, but don't really help improve performance. Not everyone chooses to feel that way. It just boils down to what you see and what you want to believe.
You mentioned all of the wonderful things you experienced as a travel ball parent. That's great! However, that is not how it is billed - as a great experience. Its advertised as a necessary step to get exposure for the next level but is not true. No plausible deniability in that statement.
Is travel ball essential to move on to the next level ? No. Does it help - yes, to a degree and under the right conditions. Primarily it is for exposure, but even that is dependent on physical makeup. Is it really necessary to get a $200 photo collage poster of the day at Ripken? Or a $90 backpack and $50 batting helmet??? Before I let everyone else answer that question, I'll just say that question sums it all up for me. The reason so many people are critical and have strong feelings about this topic is because most kids who participate aren't silver spoon kids. We are talking about working class kids whose parents have been convinced that they have to participate because their kid will be left behind. You mentioned 15U, well I can tell you that everyone in 18u thinks they are going D1 until the only offer they get is to play at the local community college or DIII school. I've always felt practice time was more important than the game. Games gauge what you can do, but don't really help improve performance. Not everyone chooses to feel that way. It just boils down to what you see and what you want to believe.
You mentioned all of the wonderful things you experienced as a travel ball parent. That's great! However, that is not how it is billed - as a great experience. Its advertised as a necessary step to get exposure for the next level but is not true. No plausible deniability in that statement.