Here - you libs need something to whine about

[TheAnalyst]

FF, as far as I know, the Patriot Act has been used once to look at what books a person was reading. If it as widespread as you indicate, I would like to see that information also.

As someone who has had to implement part of the P-A due to the nature of the business I work for, I can see it's usefullness. I do, however, think there are parts of it that go too far, and will be repealed/overturned in the next few years. Maybe it will take a new administration to get this done.

And here is a question I have asked over and over, and never received a response on. If you were president, and several nations intelligence agencies, which you thought were credible, were telling you that Iraq had WMD's, what would you do? Knowing full well that if they did have them, and you did nothing, you are putting the nations security at risk. And even further, that the person controlling this country has already attacked other nations, and has attempted to assassinate the President of the US? Definitely not an easy decision. Some people seem to think Bush made a cavalier decision. I do not think any President would lightly make such a choice.

[once a runner]

If that is true, then how do you explain the recent "top secret" British memo that was uncovered where Bush decided to attack Iraq and fix the facts around the policy?

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/s/krwashbure ... ligence_wa

Either the USA has enlisted sources that aren't very credible or Bush lied. The evidence is showing me that he lied.

[southpaw]

I thought that LP and I exterminated the liberal cockroaches(lol) on here after the election. But I guess a few survived (oar and ff)! Still ranting about the Iraq war: "the guagmire", its Vietnam!, Bush lied, imperialism, Bush is the anti-christ, he's worse than Attila and Ghengis combined!. Can't one so called liberal on here come up with one original idea on their own? Or are you just going to keep repeating the same talking points from the DNC over and over again?

[TheAnalyst]

So when Putin came out a few months ago and said that Russian intelligence was one of those sources, was he lying, or did Bush coerce him? Or are they not credible? Is British intelligence credible? If this is all a Bush lie, why are others supporting it? You have a big international conspiracy going on here, of which I have yet to see any evidence.

Again, you have not answered my question. What would you have done as president with what you believe to be credible evidence?

[southpaw]

If Bush did nothing and ignored the intelligence these same hypocrit ingrates would be screaming just the opposite: that the president did show enough resolve to what Bill "heir salvation" Clinton did when he toppled Milosovic in the FIRST premptive sanctioned US war!

[fleaflicker]

Ok, I am a moderate, but since there is no inbetween, I'm a liberal cockroach. Rather amusing, really. Anyways, I just don't happen to like the direction in which this country is going....

LP, what of Vietnam? Did Kennedy, Johnson, or Nixon, have an exit strategy? Seeing as it lasted over 10 years from first deployment to last troops leaving, I don't think we did. So far, this Iraqi conflict has lasted 2 years, and I see no end in sight. Our troops will be deployed there indefinately, just to keep the Sunnis and Shites from killing one another.

Southpaw, how much of this intelligence was made up by Bush? Come on, does anybody believe that Saddam was involved with 9-11, as Bush first announced as his reason for war, and he repeatedly said this throughout 2002. Then it was weapons of mass destruction. Now it's to free the Iraqi people. Can't you see the government is making excuses for a really stupid decision?

Analyst, I would believe it has been used far more than anybody would ever suspect. I am very cynical of government, and I think that when they have power, not only do they use it, but they abuse it. Another thing in the Patriot Act is the power to search houses without the suspect ever knowing, and without a search warrent. Isn't this far beyond constitutional boundaries?

[southpaw]

FF what's our exit strategy in Kosovo? We've been there over 10 years when Billy Clinton said we'd be there 18 months tops. Well now where's the criticism from the so called "unbiased" media? And to top it all off we supported the KLA in Kosovo who was funded yes by good ole Bin Laden! But none of that sticks to Billy Clinton does it.

Vietnam/Iraq comparison is so so so far from the truth. Its just that a bunch of old hippies want to revive their anti-everything youth movement before their kids put them in a retirement home!

[fleaflicker]

Well, we shouldn't have gone to Kosovo, but the UN said go, and we went, unfortunately.

And tell me how valid that Vietnam/Iraq comparision is when 2008 rolls around. The war in Iraq, I am willing to bet, will be one of the issues for that election. And the main issue with that election will be "How do we get out?"

[southpaw]

The UN didn't (as usual for that worhless organization) have a resolution or resolve to go. The UN didn't command us to do anything. Remember Russia and China vetoed any UN resolution involving Serbia.

NATO was the organization Clinton used to make war on a sovreign Christian nation and we are still there today but the media ignores that dirty little war. The hatred the sunni's and shiites and kurds pale in comparison to the utter revulsion in the Balkans between Christians and Muslims. They have fought each other for almost 1000 years there and will start up again as soon as Clinton's NATO peacekeepers leave. So where is our exit strategy?

[TheAnalyst]

FF - Like I said I think some parts of the P-A go too far, and I look for the part you mentioned to be overturned eventually. However, I do not have a problem with it if they are searching the residence of someone who is here illegally to begin with. Some people in our country seem to think that illegals somehow have rights.

I too am somewhat cynical of gov't, but maybe not to the extent you are. The gov't does reach too far into our personal lives, and it will not be easy to change that. I have a hard time understanding why I must spend over $5000 for a place to store my household waste, while 100 cows producing 1000 times the waste can roam free and do their business where they please. I'm just using this as an example. Gov't intrusion goes far beyond this and to extents which we don't even know about.

As far as this war goes though, I do think that some leaders of our country believed at the beginning that Iraq had WMD's with intent to use them. Since they have never been found, because they did exist at one point, I think the gov't has been trying to cover it's own butt. There is no getting out of what has been started at this point and we must finish the job.