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a thug doesn't have to have a criminal record, do they? maybe i shouldnt have used the word 'thug'. i should of referred to them as kids with questionable character instead. this type of kid is more than likely going to get in trouble once they leave home and live on campus with no parental guidance and no parental control.

you cant tell me that joepa is going into kids homes and when he has to pick between 2 kids and one happens to have questionable character but superior athletic ability over the other recruit, he is going to take the much less talented player. joepa wants to win games....bad! he recruited terrell pryor-- hard --and from what i hear pryor has some questionable character traits that could lead to problems at the college level.


i am only saying that joepa and psu are just as guilty as the rest of the colleges/universities when it comes to recruiting kids who are at risk. they want the best athlete possible to win ball games. period.

face it, psu isnt as clean as everyone wants to believe.

You'll telling us that if you yourself had questionable character, and Bobby Bowden or Joe Paterno came into your house to recruit you, that you wouldn't act like a straight arrow? You'd be nervous as hell and probably act like you were on a job interview you really wanted. How are they supposed to judge character? I should have said GUESS character. Like I said and APBK just said... those kids were not trouble-makers in HS. What are you supposed to do?

And do you think that all these teams are not accepting a few "iffy" kids, under the hope that they will straighten-out once they around the other kids who are NOT iffy?

You even said it yourself, they are as guilty as everyone else. Go to espn.com if you don't think everyone else is covering things up and recruiting "thugs". You do not get to create a monster and then complain when he knocks over a few buildings.

Oklahoma kicked a receiver off of the team yesterday for a video on Youtube. Of course, prior to this he had a gun at his high school, so PSU is not the only school things like this happen. It just seems to happen to them a little more often than other schools.

Of the things that happened recently that were "serious", let's take a look.

Anwar Phillips accused of rape. Weren't the charges dropped?
Austin Scott accused of rape. Charges dropped, I believe.
Lavon Chisely killed someone I think, but this was after he was already gone from Penn State.

In this recent string of insanity, other than Scott, we have the fight scene and the cafeteria scene. Baker has been in trouble for awhile, he's off the team. Taylor is an idiot, he's off the team. Chris Bell pulls a knife on a teammate, he's off the team. Bell, Baker, Taylor, and Scott were the biggest problems of the past year and they are all off the team now. So is Knowledge Timmons, and I can't remember what he did.

Chris Baker and Phil Taylor were battling for starting jobs. Chris Bell was the only decent receiver they had who was not a senior. Scott was a monumental bust because he was too immature to be in college. Timmons is probably better than Lydell Sargent, to be honest.

So there are 5 kids who were either starters or were going to be starters, and they are all off the team. What more do you want?

As for Scirrotto and that whole fight scene, singularly, I still do not think that anything happened that night that should have rendered any dismissals. Suspensions, yes. Maybe I'm too battle-hardened from college, but nothing happened in that dorm room that I didn't see happen 10 times when I was at UNT. It's really not that big of a deal, in my opinion. Sit them for 2 games.

As for Jarboe, I'm not sure what I think of that dismissal yet. When he got in trouble with the gun, he was still in high school. So then he gets kicked off the team for making that rap video about guns and shooting people. I guess maybe they did the right thing, but I don't know if a freshman doing this and a senior doing this is the same equivalent. These kids are 18, they don't have a clue in this world, can you kick him off the team for this? Suspend him all season. If something happens in year 2, then he's maybe dismissed. All that is gonna happen is he is gonna go someplace else and be an all-star.

It is just hypocritical of places like ESPN who do this. You back these programs into a corner and they have no choice but to dismiss these kids. It should be up to the NCAA governing body who stays and who goes. Obviously you can't let the colleges handle it themselves. But the national media shouldn't be allowed to have a say, either.

TAE - I agree with some of the things you have said but fighting is a criminal behavior in or out of a college. What happens to most people who are in a bar fight? Usually charges are pressed. And sometimes then dropped. The long and short is that there was a fight between at least two people. This is not acceptable behavior. You may not think that is a big deal but regardless it is criminal behavior. These kids, (at PSU and other campuses) are getting there education paid for or part of it paid for. They should be held accountable and held with much higher standards. You cant say that a little fight where a guy gets knocked out isnt a big deal. Or when a knife is pulled on a teammate is not a big deal. These guys will have no money to pay back in 4 or 5 years. They should be held at a little higher standard. I know of at least 4 kids who were not athletes who got into fights and were expelled from college and no charges were filed. Yeah kids will be kids but the stuff that psu has going on is unacceptable. Whether the charges were dropped or not, it happened. As for the ex player who killed that other guy....I highly doubt that he just decided to become a bad person after his playing days were over at psu.

Ahhh, Everything is right in the world....... again.......as Vman returns from a couple weeks away & some Flats fishing:



He reads of more UPS tribulations.....at least the fellows will again feel @ Home in the summer camp facilities:



And the equipment staff does not have to order new practice gear.....they'll utilize last years:

Look what the cat drug in!!!

Bcc, good points. It is criminal behavior, but did any of those non-players get into any trouble? From what I know about how they fight went down, something happened and Scirrotto's gf kicked that guy in the jimmy. Then the guy punched Scirrotto in the face, and he sent the posse up to that apartment. I highly doubt she kicked this guy for no reason. In that OTL show, not once did they ask that kid why he was kicked in the groin. But they did a great job showing Scirrotto to be a maniac.

Here's the situation: you are 22 years old and 3/4 of the way drunk at a bar. A guy says something or does something to your gf which was enough to get her to actually kick him in the groin. Then he punches you in the face. What do you do from here?

if i am a division 1 football player for a top 20 team, i probably would not be out in a bar getting drunk. you asked if it was me. i cant speak for anyone else. but if i have the work ethic and discipline to get to that level, i would probably have the discipline to not get drunk and fight. how many ivy leaguers do you see getting charged for fights or even drunk driving? those types of kids are no different than the ones psu are recruiting...right??

Are there bars around Ivy League schools???

bcc, you act like he committed murder. he was at the bar with his gf, his gf got into a bad situation, and he stuck up for his gf. he was over 21 and at a bar, no crime. also, who said he was drunk. you can go to the bar without getting manurefaced