Pedro Alvarez is really bad right now

[Crimson's Ghost]

WAR is a pretty simple concept, it comprises all aspects, running, hitting, and defense and meshes it into one combined statistic. Not sure why its hard to grasp, and why it is automatically a bad stat.

Mike Trout has a higher WAR than Miguel Cabrera because his base running and defense are taken into consideration, thus encompassing his entire worth. It paints the picture of the entire player beyond the traditional average, home run, and RBI that has long been taken into consideration to reward players.

I'm not saying it's my favorite thing in the world, but a lot of people smarter than anyone on this website think its pretty relevant.

[knowitall]

It is not a simple concept. If Miguel Cabrera gets hurt he is not being replaced by Mike Trout.

Pedro Alvarez leads the Pirates in RBIs and is tied for the team lead in HRs and is third on runs scored. If he went on the DL today he would be replaced in the lineup by Clint Barmes. He would be replaced on the roster by Brent Morel. Jordy Mercer would likely move to 3B. If you can take all that information into consideration, put it in a formula and come up with --.2, I want to see it and please show us your work.

[Manfred]

I'd put JayHa at 3rd before Mercer. 2c.

[say_oww]

From Wikipedia -

Wins Above Replacement or Wins Above Replacement Player, commonly abbreviated to WAR or WARP, is a non-standardized sabermetric baseball statistic developed to sum up the extent of "a player’s total contributions to their team".[1] The WAR value recorded for a player is claimed to reflect the number of additional wins their team has amassed relative to the number of expected team wins if that player was substituted by a replacement level player: a player that may be brought to the team for minimal cost and effort.[2]

Baseball Reference uses six components to calculate WAR for position players:[14] The components are batting runs, baserunning runs, runs added or lost due to grounding into double plays in double play situations, fielding runs, positional adjustment runs, and replacement level runs (based on playing time). The first five factors are compared to league average, so a value of 0 represents an average player.
bWAR = (P_{runs} - A_{runs}) + (A_{runs} - R_{runs})
The term P_{runs} - A_{runs} may be calculated from the first five factors, and the other term from the remaining factor.[14]

Batting runs depends on weighted Runs Above Average (wRAA), weighted to the offense of the league, and is calculated from wOBA.[15]
wRAA = \tfrac{wOBA - .320}{1.25} * (AB + BB +HBP + SF + SH)
where
wOBA = {(\alpha_1 * uBB + \alpha_2 * HBP + \alpha_3 * 1B + \alpha_4 * 2B + \alpha_5 * 3B + \alpha_6 * HR + \alpha_7 * SB - \alpha_8 * CS) \over (AB+BB-IBB+HBP+SF)}
Here, "AB" is the number of at bats, "BB" the number of base on balls ("uBB" is unintentional base on balls and "IBB" is intentional base on balls), HBP the number of times hit by pitch, "SF" the number of sacrifice flies, "SH" the number of sacrifice hits, "1B" the number of singles, "2B" the number of doubles, "3B" the number of triples, "HR" the number of home runs, "SB" the number of stolen bases, and "CS" the number of caught stealing.[15] \alpha_1 to \alpha_8 represent weighting coefficients. Baseball Reference eliminates pitcher batting results from its data, computes linear weights and wOBA coefficients for each league, then scales the values for each league and season.[15]

The positional adjustment is a value dependent on the players position: +10.0 for a catcher, −10 for a first baseman, +3.0 for a second baseman, +2.0 for a third baseman, +7.5 for a shortstop, −7.5 for a left fielder, +2.5 for a center fielder, −7.5 for a right fielder, and −15.0 for a designated hitter.[15] These values are set assuming 1,350 innings played (150 games of 9 innings).[15] A player's positional adjustment is the sum of the positional adjustment for each position played by the player scaled to the number of games played by the player at that position, normalized to 1,350 innings.[15]

With that being said, it is a useful stat and is used heavily at the professional level when determining which players to sign and for how long, etc. You may have heard of a movie starring Brad Pitt called "Moneyball" where they tell the story of the Oakland A's and their success with such a sabermetric approach to baseball. People said the same negative things about Tampa Bay and the way Joe Maddon employed several types of defensive position shifts as early as six or seven years ago. Now, nearly every team in the league has some type of shift strategy. Professional teams use every advantage they can in order to succeed. Well - almost every team does that with the exception of Pittsburgh from 1993 - 2012.

[Crimson's Ghost]

I said simple concept, not exactly a simple formula. Mike Trout is better overall at baseball than Miguel Cabrera because he's a better defender and baserunner. That's the simple concept. When people vote for him at MVP, that's what they are looking at. You can't completely dismiss the concept if Mike Trout is getting a ton of votes. Obviously the baseball community sees value in looking at things beyond home runs and runs batted in. I mean McCutchen won the MVP with 21 HR's and 87 RBI's, you don't think sabermetrics and his base running and defensive aspects played a role into him getting the award?


If you would have read earlier in the discussion, I actually started the notion about WAR not always being accurate, you are kinda making my point. Pedro Alvarez will always get paid if he can hit home runs and drive in runs, and he can have a terrible WAR. I said something along the lines, "power hitters don't grow on trees" and baseball executives understand that. McCutchen benefits by having Pedro there, and the Pirates lineup needs him there.



If the Pirates season came down to Josh Harrison playing third, they are in major trouble.

[say_oww]

One other thing I failed to mention is that while sabermetrics is a very popular philosophy in professional baseball, so is ignorance. Many scouts and talent evaluators do not give advanced stats any credence. Typically it is along the same lines as what you see here and in everyday life... those who don't understand often don't want to understand.

[knowitall]

I said simple concept, not exactly a simple formula. Mike Trout is better overall at baseball than Miguel Cabrera because he's a better defender and baserunner. That's the simple concept. When people vote for him at MVP, that's what they are looking at. You can't completely dismiss the concept if Mike Trout is getting a ton of votes. Obviously the baseball community sees value in looking at things beyond home runs and runs batted in. I mean McCutchen won the MVP with 21 HR's and 87 RBI's, you don't think sabermetrics and his base running and defensive aspects played a role into him getting the award?

Trout can be said to be the better player based on the similarity of the numbers put up plus the stolen bases. Comparing an outfielder and a first basemen (who graciously agreed to play 3B when asked to accommodate Prince Fielder and did so adequately) is a bit of a stretch. Age and body type is also a factor. No need to go to WAR for that. Cutch won the MVP based on the fact that he was considered to be the best player on a surprise playoff team. Again, no need to go to WAR to see that. Before there was WAR Willie Stargell won an MVP in a season where he hit 32 HRs and drove in 82.

There is no real reason to complicate baseball by introducing obscure stats. The old ones in conjunction with the eye test do just fine.

[knowitall]

One other thing I failed to mention is that while sabermetrics is a very popular philosophy in professional baseball, so is ignorance. Many scouts and talent evaluators do not give advanced stats any credence. Typically it is along the same lines as what you see here and in everyday life... those who don't understand often don't want to understand.

Can ERA Sports help boost junior's WAR to help make him more appealing to Waynesburg or Allegheny?

[Crimson's Ghost]

Yeah, but I didn't introduce WAR. Baseball geeks did, and it's being used. It is what it is.

[say_oww]

I said simple concept, not exactly a simple formula. Mike Trout is better overall at baseball than Miguel Cabrera because he's a better defender and baserunner. That's the simple concept. When people vote for him at MVP, that's what they are looking at. You can't completely dismiss the concept if Mike Trout is getting a ton of votes. Obviously the baseball community sees value in looking at things beyond home runs and runs batted in. I mean McCutchen won the MVP with 21 HR's and 87 RBI's, you don't think sabermetrics and his base running and defensive aspects played a role into him getting the award?

Trout can be said to be the better player based on the similarity of the numbers put up plus the stolen bases. Comparing an outfielder and a first basemen (who graciously agreed to play 3B when asked to accommodate Prince Fielder and did so adequately) is a bit of a stretch. Age and body type is also a factor. No need to go to WAR for that. Cutch won the MVP based on the fact that he was considered to be the best player on a surprise playoff team. Again, no need to go to WAR to see that. Before there was WAR Willie Stargell won an MVP in a season where he hit 32 HRs and drove in 82.

There is no real reason to complicate baseball by introducing obscure stats. The old ones in conjunction with the eye test do just fine.

Personally, I don't understand why a multi-million dollar company such as a professional baseball team would want more advanced ways to measure the worth of their employees. Who does that?