Presidential debate Round 1

[fleaflicker]

[quote="fleaflicker";p="63341"]On the other hand, I am talking to a group of some people that SEEM rather bigoted and uneducated, and their mind is already made up.


I did not call you anything, though you did come off seeming that way Southpaw, after not doing any research and calling homosexuals devients. Just like you told me to go hug a tree, and told Wildcat he was just like the village idiot. Hmmm. If you're going to give out such remarks, best be prepared to take them to. Especially if you're a teacher and should know better than to assume things w/o any research, and go around making rude remarks to people. See my above post for some of those.

LP, sorry if you took any of that to heart for you, because southpaw was getting under my skin. You didn't come off calling anybody devient, and were just standing by your morals. You do have a head on your shoulders.

[fleaflicker]

Ok, getting back to the conversation, here's a picture of Kerry's record from MSN news.

"But last year, in its assessment of votes cast in 2003, National Journal found that Kerry’s voting record was more liberal than 97 percent of his Senate colleagues, making him, for 2003, the most liberal member of the body.

National Journal editor Charles Green was quick to explain that “Kerry missed a lot of votes in 2003 — 37 of the 62 that were being used in the vote ratings,” so the magazine’s rating was a bit skewed."

Yeah, just who I want in office, somebody who votes liberal consistently to get the most liberal senator of 03 award, then upon that coming out, it's explained as him missing most of the votes that counted. Hmm, somebody's not doing their job in the Senate, missing more than half of the votes.

Anyways, here's the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6227107/


I don't think we've gotten nearly as much help from a coalition as one would hope for. While we haven't accounted for 90% of the troops there (though we might be there now, I'd have to see current numbers), we did have 132,000 troops there at one time last November, while the rest of the world combined had less than 30,000. Not exactly a grand coalition.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 267451.stm

[southpaw]

Flea, tree hugger doesn't not equal bigot. Don't try to pretend to even have the vaguest idea about what good sound research is all about. After 6 weeks of college you are an even bigger know it all than you were in high school.

I meant nothing mean spirited by telling you to hug a tree etc. Just some sarcasm and satire. I do it reglularly with others on here. I guess you skin is just too thin yet of your sense of humor is too shallow. But calling someone a bigot or whatever is a serious problem you'll have to address. If someone disagress with you don't resort to name calling.

Maybe you should look up the definition of deviant! I stand by that post as a fact!

[once a runner]

A couple of more things I don't get....

The Kyoto treaty is bad because it will cost the USA jobs. However, outscourcing jobs is ok because...??? Hmmm, why is outscourcing jobs ok? It seems like when you send jobs to other countries our country loses jobs. I'm sure that's too logical to be right though.

What is an ally? Someone who does exactly what we tell them to do! We really don't want that global confirmation in the ole USA before we go bomb someone, right? We have to do what is best for us. Don't other countries get the same option?

[LionPride]

How many of those countries just lost 3,000 citizens in 1 day? I think we had a right to do what needed to be done, and if France didn't like it, to hell with them. We still have the right to do what we need to do to prevent that from ever happening again.

France is like that little brother that is always getting picked on, an big brother comes to bail him out. Then little brother goes and tries to get big brother in trouble for something. Well, big brother is tired of it, and now little brother can fend for himself. Although, and we all know this to be true, if France were invaded today, we would be right there bailing them out again. Not that they would do that for us though.

[southpaw]

Good points runner.

The Kyoto Treaty is a lot more than reduction in greenhouse gases by nations. There's a lot of regulation and trade that is counter productive to free market ecomomies. The "out sourcing" of jobs is a direct result of NAFTA and other trade agreements that frankly stink. The outsourcing of jobs is a direct result of the monoply Wal-Mart currently enjoys globally and is violation of US anti-trust laws than Standard Oil or Microsoft.

The ally question is puzzling. Allies usually have the same aims their gov'ts in trade and security. Since the Cold War ended the French and Germans have been distancing themselves from US/Anglo goals because they don't need us to protect them from the Soviets anymore. Change is good over time allies change over time as well.

The French haven't been close allies since the Revolutionary War.

[foghorn]

The S and L Tag Team.: our own local isolationists.

[southpaw]

Pat Buchanan in 2008!

Seriously, these trade treaties look good on the surface but really stink once you look closely. The Devil is in the details. They were supposed to level the playing field for free trade but sets limits on us and not on other nations.

[LionPride]

[quote="foghorn";p="65012"]The S and L Tag Team.: our own local isolationists.[/quote]

No different than the F&F team, or the F&R team, or the F&L team. You're just mad that we're better informed and state facts, not rhetoric.

[foghorn]

*I'm not mad about anything, LP. Geez, stop taking yourself so seriously and develop a sense of humor like your cohort, Southpaw. Last compliment you'll ever get from me.

*If you refuse to admit that your posts have an isolationist quality to them, then you're in denial. Oh, that's right. we've got Poland working with us.

*You and your facts. I present opinions that don't come out of a vacuum; they're based largely on my interpretation of the facts. Forgive me if I don't have them all at my beck and call. Read or reread Orwell to see what can be done with facts. Or better yet, refer to each of the debates again and see how both sides can mangle facts.

*Here's a fact: six more American soldiers were killed yesterday in that lovely war you're so proud of. Another 15 were seriously injured in that and various other attacks.
At this rate if Bush is elected, he'd better start planning on building or reopening some new VA hospitals.

*Speaking of Bush, one of the recent issues of the "National Review" (forgive me, I don't have the exact FACTS as to the date), had an article that bluntly made the assertion that a lot of notable GOP leaders are quite adament that if Bush is reelected a lot of changes will need to be made -- from new cabinet appointments to significant changes in foreign and domestic policy. And just last night on TV I heard the same thing on Scarborough.

How do you reconcile that with your idolatry of 43? (And that's what it is: idolatry.)